[VIDEO] If You're Wondering About: Navigating The Non-Binary Spectrum
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The vision of {THE AND} is to build a catalogue of humans expressing their experiences and what it means to be in relationship with one another in the 21st Century. We believe there is something to learn from everyone, and that one’s life experience shared can be medicine for another, and vice versa. Thus we are proud to share with you moments pulled from our {THE AND} library that reflect exploration around a particular subject or situation.
In This Video
In this episode people talk about their individual journey through gender identity discovery, while navigating the non-binary spectrum and how that looks like in every aspect of their lives. As we explore new perspectives we invite you to step into the emotional space of connection and experience the deeper lessons that shared experiences can afford humanity. To everyone who has participated openly and vulnerably in our project - we appreciate what you have shared with us and hope others do as well.
Video Transcript
0:07
Even if I'm in a
0:10
red dress, I'm non-binary bitch
0:13
and I look good, you know, like, it's
0:15
it didn't make me.
0:16
You just made me feel like
0:17
I didn't have to be, like,
0:18
going for this certain thing.
0:20
It was just about, like, what I felt
0:22
and that it didn't matter
0:23
if I wore a dress
0:25
the whole year around
0:26
and if the reason was
0:27
because I felt comfortable
0:28
or because I had to. It didn't matter.
0:31
I was non-binary, through and through
0:33
and that like,
0:34
it was more
0:35
so about, like, once
0:36
I found something that connected with me
0:38
that really helped.
0:39
But meeting you, like, showed me, like,
0:42
what that really meant.
0:44
And so that, like, just took away
0:46
a lot of the
0:48
fear and shame that I had.
0:57
What do I
0:58
bring that none
0:58
of your other partners didn't?
1:02
I don't know.
1:02
Like you being non-binary
1:04
like that comes out
1:05
in every aspect of who you are.
1:07
It's like this
1:07
perfect harmony of those energies.
1:10
So and they,
1:11
like, balance each other out.
1:12
So whatever you pursue,
1:13
whether it's like, more like,
1:15
like traditional feminine things,
1:17
perhaps, like, they're not
1:20
like it's not experienced that way,
1:22
I don't know, something
1:23
is, I mean, articulate about that, but
1:26
yeah, you're able
1:27
to really flow
1:28
between the two energies so
1:31
well, which is why- what I love.
1:32
But I love being around you
1:33
and you teach me so much
1:35
weaving through those things, you know?
1:37
Yeah.
1:38
And redefining
1:38
what those things can look like.
1:40
Like a barber calling you Princess
1:44
You
1:44
were laughing about that.
1:45
Yeah. - Yeah.
1:47
Yeah. No, I think it's
1:50
that part of me that's been
1:52
more coming out of, you know,
1:55
like, my non-binary self has kind of been a
1:59
constant navigation.
2:02
You know,
2:02
I feel like
2:03
I should be more masculine in this way,
2:06
or I should be, you know, like.
2:08
Like
2:09
there's- I think because I've been seen
2:12
so feminine for so much of my life,
2:14
there's been a sense of, like,
2:15
I have to pursue the masculine.
2:18
I have to reject the feminine
2:20
quality or whatever.
2:24
And so I really do.
2:25
I'm trying to
2:26
to rid myself of that
2:27
because I don't think,
2:28
you know,
2:28
there was a time where I was like,
2:30
I think I'm a trans man,
2:31
you know what I mean? And like that-
2:34
Nothing wrong with that.
2:35
But that at this time
2:36
doesn't feel like it's actually me.
2:38
It felt like I was just
2:39
trying to land somewhere,
2:42
you know,
2:43
like land somewhere on that binary
2:46
scale.
2:47
And just to be like you know,
2:50
not have to deal
2:51
with that discomfort anymore, so.
2:53
Yeah, I mean, I think you've helped me
2:56
navigate that for sure.
2:57
Mm.
2:59
If you could go back in time
3:00
when I was five,
3:01
what advice
3:02
would you give yourself
3:03
regarding raising me?
3:05
That's a good one.
3:07
What advice would I give myself?
3:09
Yeah.
3:11
Now that you know... - Going back. Wow.
3:12
...who I am now. - I, um...
3:15
Well, first of all, I feel like,
3:19
you know, with all the gender stuff
3:20
that I understand
3:21
now how you were back when you were five.
3:23
I didn't understand it then.
3:26
You know that Nikki nice chart.
3:28
Remember that? You know, and-
3:30
Being a bad child.
3:32
Yeah.
3:32
When your grandfather
3:33
would come over
3:34
and want a big hug and kiss,
3:36
and you'd be like-
3:37
You know. - He'd call me cute.
3:39
And you'd be like,
3:40
you didn't want to be called cute.
3:41
And the word pretty was a problem.
3:43
And now I understand.
3:46
Yeah.
3:48
But I think I would.
3:50
I think
3:53
the whole body image thing,
3:54
I think I would do things differently.
3:56
Like, I was always wanting to make sure
4:00
that you
4:02
didn't think about,
4:04
you know, food.
4:05
And I wasn't going to be on
4:07
your case for, you know, the right diet.
4:09
I wanted to not ever talk about it.
4:11
I didn't want you to become so
4:16
you know, I didn't want you to become
4:18
so obsessed about it.
4:21
So, you know, I just let it be.
4:22
I let it be whatever.
4:24
And I think if I were to do over,
4:26
I think I would probably make it
4:27
a little bit more important and,
4:30
you know, do better about eating
4:31
right and not have a vegetable every,
4:34
you know,
4:35
like not eating,
4:36
you know, pop tarts for breakfast.
4:38
And, you know,
4:38
I think I would I'd go back and change
4:40
that for sure.
4:43
When was the last time
4:44
our relationship changed?
4:46
And what do you think that led us to?
4:51
Obviously, when I broke up with
4:53
my ex-boyfriend.
4:54
Mm hmm.
4:55
I think
4:56
that I mean, we were already close
5:00
and I never had a problem talking to you.
5:02
And we talked to each other,
5:03
and we didn't face time all the time.
5:04
We didn't, like,
5:05
do that whole thing, but, like,
5:07
we never felt I mean, at least to me,
5:10
I never felt like we were
5:13
I guess apart. - Mm hmm.
5:14
But our relationship
5:16
did absolutely change when I left him.
5:19
And moved in with you guys.
5:21
I feel like even
5:21
my gender expression changed
5:23
when I moved in. - Mm hmm.
5:24
Because it's like,
5:25
it was, like,
5:25
kind of, like, teetering
5:27
because I was like,
5:29
I've been identifying as non-binary for, like,
5:31
that long already.
5:33
But, like,
5:33
when I moved
5:34
in, I felt like I had the freedom
5:35
to just fully just relax.
5:37
Essentially.
5:38
I think for the first time.
5:39
Ever in your life.
5:41
I don't know if I told you this, but, like,
5:45
because I
5:45
think I bought, like,
5:46
my first skirt to just, like, wear.
5:47
Because I had bought it
5:48
for, like, when I did
5:49
drag and like,
5:49
many other things, but, like,
5:53
when I bought my first skirt
5:54
I tell my friends was like,
5:55
it was incredibly affirming
5:57
that you did not care.
6:00
No, it's great
6:01
because, like,
6:01
it wasn't like you're sitting there
6:02
like almost in like
6:05
almost like being kind of saying
6:06
like, yes, that's amazing. Work. Whatever.
6:08
I was like. Oh, that's cool.
6:09
Yeah, that's cool.
6:10
Or you didn't really
6:11
shamed me for it, right?
6:12
You were just like, oh, it's cute.
6:14
And I was like,
6:14
that was the most affirming thing for me
6:16
because I had only ever
6:17
really experienced one or two things.
6:19
People really like being condescending
6:21
and like,
6:21
almost like giving me
6:22
too much compliments.
6:24
And then people just,
6:25
like, really saying like,
6:26
what the fuck is going on there?
6:27
Yeah.
6:28
And so,
6:29
yeah, that was- - I didn't know that.
6:30
- Oh, my God, it means the world to me.
6:33
That was when
6:33
I finally felt like
6:33
completely comfortable.
6:36
Yeah.
6:38
Good.
6:42
Okay,
6:43
how do you describe our relationship to others?
6:47
Um, how do I describe my relationship?
6:53
I mean, sometimes I like to say
6:55
that you're my boyfriend. It's just like. - Sick.
6:57
Like some people are just like- I mean,
7:00
People who don't know you.
7:01
For example, my coworkers
7:04
if they, uh,
7:06
if they ask,
7:07
I say: Yeah, I have a boyfriend,
7:09
he's really cool. - Sick.
7:10
He has a lot of tattoos.
7:13
It feels good.
7:15
Yeah, I figured you'd like it, but
7:18
I never told you until just now.
7:20
Oh.
7:22
Do you ever say girlfriend? - No.
7:25
Do you ever say partner?
7:26
Yeah, sometimes.
7:28
Most of the time.
7:29
Do you ever say
7:31
anything else?
7:33
Uh, partner.
7:35
Yeah, that's about it.
7:37
I- that's like, you know,
7:39
that pretty much covers it
7:41
for people that like, know
7:42
and are kind of in the community
7:45
and, like,
7:46
might potentially know
7:47
you also as a partner,
7:48
but for people who are just kind of
7:51
whatever, you know,
7:53
I say boyfriend
7:54
just to keep it simple
7:55
so that nobody gets confused.
7:58
I don't know.
8:00
You kind of have
8:00
to think about things and
8:03
like very binary terms when interacting
8:06
with, like,
8:07
straight people,
8:08
cis people, stuff like that.
8:10
Just to simplify it for them. - For sure.
8:12
Yeah.
8:13
Do you ever say my gender nonconforming
8:16
so and so, my trans so and so?
8:19
No, I don't feel like
8:21
that's like super relevant
8:22
or like people don't really need to know.
8:24
Or maybe it's
8:26
like I don't feel like
8:27
that's my thing to disclose.
8:29
Hmm.
8:30
Do you
8:31
what would you like me
8:32
to describe you as
8:34
when I'm talking with people?
8:36
I say girlfriend.
8:38
That's fine.
8:39
I like it. - Okay.
8:41
And, or partner.
8:42
I like girlfriend. And when people see me is like,
8:44
"Girlfriend? Are you sure?"
8:45
Like, isn't she hot?
8:51
When did we
8:51
miss understand each other the most
8:53
and how did we overcome it?
8:57
When did we misunderstand
8:58
each other most
8:59
and how did we overcome it?
9:02
Misunderstand each other
9:03
the most? When you started transitioning
9:06
I think- I think we
9:08
when you,
9:09
you know, told me that you know,
9:11
when you were starting
9:12
to step into
9:13
and walk into your queerness,
9:15
that was life changing for me.
9:17
You saying to me, I'm not-
9:20
I'm not gonna say you're not normal
9:21
because you are normal,
9:22
but I'm not the woman that you think I am
9:24
or I'm not I'm
9:25
not this feminine person
9:27
that you think that I am.
9:29
I'm not that.
9:30
So I would say
9:31
that would probably be for me.
9:33
- Yeah. What about you?
9:35
I would agree.
9:36
I think like
9:37
my queer identity, like my perspective
9:41
on social issues,
9:43
like as I evolved, I think
9:45
that that became
9:47
like I just knew you didn't get it.
9:48
But I think the one thing I'll say
9:50
is like, also mental health
9:52
that just was not
9:53
in our narrative, right?
9:55
Like mental health
9:56
and like depression
9:57
and all of these things like
10:00
they were seen as like,
10:01
there's something wrong with you.
10:03
Like, you're crazy, right?
10:04
Like, that's even ablest language to use.
10:06
But that's how I felt.
10:09
And I think that was actually
10:09
the first time that I felt misunderstood,
10:12
which is like,
10:13
I think why I began to internalize
10:16
so much more things
10:17
that I knew about myself
10:18
because that first incident where I like
10:21
obviously tried to commit suicide, like,
10:24
I now know that
10:24
you tried to advocate for me.
10:26
You were able to get the resources
10:28
that we needed at the time.
10:29
But I actually didn't know that
10:31
till like two weeks ago.
10:32
And you never told me
10:33
so in my whole life.
10:34
I've just thought like
10:36
these people
10:37
did not care about the fact
10:38
that I tried to take my
10:39
own life, you know? So
10:41
I would say
10:42
this the
10:42
other place that I feel
10:44
like you've misunderstood me,
10:46
but I think as I've grown as an adult, I
10:48
recognize the disparities around
10:50
mental health generationally.
10:52
And I recognize how
10:56
that is not like
10:57
something that like
10:58
we grew up with in our culture
11:00
was to, like, understand that,
11:02
like, it's
11:02
okay to struggle
11:04
and like there are literal
11:05
chemical imbalances.
11:06
There are so many other interferences
11:08
that are happening. - Right.
11:09
And even adding on to that,
11:11
just this idea of
11:12
like what it means to have to have been
11:14
a high achieving child
11:15
in a white space like
11:18
baby I've been probably dealing
11:20
with mental health issues
11:21
since I was seven
11:22
and just didn't know it. Right?
11:23
Because like in many ways, like
11:25
I was tokenized.
11:30
How do you
11:30
think your parents would react
11:32
if you brought me home as your partner? - Oh my God.
11:34
So funny. - How important.
11:38
Oh, that's a good question.
11:43
I don't know.
11:43
I don't know.
11:44
Okay, so we do have our issues as,
11:47
you know,
11:48
the culture and stuff,
11:49
but we're very hospitable.
11:50
So we'll definitely treat you with hospitality
11:54
and be kind.
11:55
They would definitely be pretty shocked.
11:59
Or maybe not. Maybe, maybe not.
12:00
Maybe some people
12:02
who I have been open with would be like,
12:04
yeah, it seems like your type of person.
12:06
Yeah, seems like your type.
12:08
You're into that
12:09
you know, things like that.
12:10
Like, okay, cool.
12:11
You know,
12:12
would probably have to
12:14
rush my mom to the emergency room
12:15
because she would have like
12:16
a panic attack or a heart attack.
12:18
Who knows?
12:20
I would say that.
12:22
Yeah. Well, it's close by.
12:23
It's like 5 minutes away. She'll be fine.
12:26
I don't feel that
12:28
She'll be okay.
12:29
Okay, that's fair.
12:32
I wouldn't have expected
12:33
anything different
12:34
based on what you were telling me
12:35
about your family.
12:36
But at the same time,
12:37
the fact that,
12:38
like, I feel like
12:39
if you would ever be willing to bring me
12:41
home as a partner or
12:43
bring anyone home as a partner,
12:46
the fact that you would be willing
12:47
to make that effort
12:49
despite knowing
12:49
your family's history with-
12:52
with that topic
12:54
shows bravery on your part.
12:55
So I think that that's more
12:56
of what you would focus on as opposed to
12:59
whatever harsh things
13:00
your family would have to say about it.
13:01
I guess I never thought of it that way.
13:03
I more so, always thought of myself
13:05
as the bad guy
13:06
and kind of thing, like,
13:07
why would I ever put anybody
13:08
in that situation?
13:09
I don't want them
13:09
to ever feel uncomfortable,
13:11
but for you to say that was really nice.
13:14
It made me think of in a different light.
13:16
Yeah, I mean,
13:17
even if you make them uncomfortable
13:19
at the same time,
13:19
you might be working towards
13:21
making your partner comfortable.
13:22
So you can't necessarily
13:24
always do it for everyone.
13:25
But as long as you're doing it
13:26
for someone, you know, you're still making an effort.
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